Do You Give Your Best but it is Never Enough?:
Signs of Your Codependence
Has Your Relationship Become a Depressing Chore?:
Codependency in Your Marriage Partner
Are You Treated Different in Private than in Public?:
Does Someone Close to You Show Signs of Narcissism?
Are You Anxious and Exhausted From Hiding Your Shame?:
Signs of Your Own Narcissism
Is Your Marriage Dysfunctional?
Is your marriage full of hurt, hard feelings, anger and disappointment: with little room left for love?
Narcissism and Codependency are patterns of behavior that cause family dysfunction. They will cause chaos and disappointment in a marriage and eventually destroy love.
Many of us learned these patterns of behavior growing up.
Codependency and Marriage
I often use the term Emotional Codependence rather than codependency because I feel it explains the problem a little better.
It’s wonderful to be loved and appreciated. However Codependency and Marriage are a disasterous mix. Needing someone’s love and approval to feel good about yourself and/or feeling a responsibility to “fix things” every time your partner feels angry or upset, will soon make married life a chore for your partner.
Narcissism and Marriage
Narcissism and Marriage are an even worse mix. People with Narcissistic tendencies won’t appreciate the way their codependent spouse goes about getting his or her emotional needs met. In love with the idea of being loved and adored, If they see that their marriage partner is unhappy, a narcissist will seek love and approval outside the marriage and treat other people much better than their spouse.
Please Continue Reading by clicking the links on the statements that apply to you at the beginning of this article (and subscribe at the end of the pages you read to receive an introductory special on our books) . . .
Please Bookmark this Page Now to Make Sure You Can Find it Again 🙂
Hi Kim, where can I go to get some SIMPLE basic steps right now to follow. My husband, after reading your blog, has NPD. He has been gone for approximately 5 weeks now. I cannot find the steps. Confused. Thanks
Catherine
Hi Catherine, Please read the page http://www.narcissismcured.com/narcissistic-personality-disorder-in-your-partner.html and then subscribe and follow the prompts. After reading the private pages you will be directed to purchase special offer number 1. and start working through the steps in those two short ebooks. Then if you see positive change and want to take those changes further – go back and purchase special offer 2. These specials will give you BIG savings on our ebooks but if you don’t want to subscribe then go to our products page here http://www.narcissismcured.com/Our_Products.html – and start with Back From the Looking Glass and 10 Steps to Overcome Codependence and then later move on to The Love safety Net Workbook. The steps are simple to understand but not easy – as these actions will be new to you and therefore scary. Please read over both ebooks first to get a general overview of where you are about to take things and then develop your own plan of action. Things often get worse before they get better and so you will really need the confidence of having a ‘big picture plan’ in mind that you are determined to stick to. Your husband will most likely fight you on this and so you need to be ready to stand rock solid.
Thank you, Kim & Steve!
My husband and I rarely disagree, but if he does not get his way, or the “upper hand” he exits, finds something to do, somewhere to do, even if it’s to his computer or to bed. I am left to pray about my invalidated feelings. Charles and I care very deeply for each other, but he has been diagnosed with ocd, anxiety, and has had bouts of major depression. We have been married over 39 years. We have 3 lovely daughters with husbands and a total of 7 grandchildren. We have been very blessed. Please keep us in your prayers, and I will for the future of you both. May God’s grace shine on both of you. You have found your purpose in life and I appreciate each email. Thank you.
Sincerely, Mrs. Miriam Dixon
Kim,
I see that you are supposed to stand your ground with the narcassist husband, but what do you do when he doesn’t respect your boundaries? When I say things like, “I will no longer tolerate you speaking to me that way” he just laughs and says that my threats mean “nothing to him” and that he will do as he pleases. How is one supposed to respond to something like that without being completely dehumanized?
Hi Kat – Great question! For one – what you said is not a threat merely a statement. Second – only you can choose to let his rudeness dehumanize you so instead make a better choice of how you are going to let his bad behavior make you feel and instead internally rise above it. Next I would recommend this … 1. You have said that you won’t tolerate it and so you must stick to that. 2. Do not make that statement again or it will weaken your position. 3. Next time he is rude, disengage saying “I don’t see this conversation going anywhere productive – I am going to bed/work/go do some gardening” etc. and go do that. 4. Choose your battles. Before making bold statements about what you will not tolerate make sure you choose the battle wisely. Do not make threats – the rule is one warning and then action. So make sure you don’t make a warning about what will result from his actions if you will not (or cannot) carry through with it. 5. Do not make warnings or ultimatums that will hurt or disadvantage you to carry through on. A good warning sounds like “I do not know how to handle you when you are so rude and disrespectful and because I don’t – I am sorry but you should know that I will be talking to —- and asking if they can help me if your rudeness continues.” 6. Don’t think the consequence of what will happen if his behavior continues is where the power in this is. The power is in you being able to deflect and rise above his put downs. Are you going to continue letting yourself feel bad, just because the obnoxious brat in him is behaving badly? You will never be able to control that part of him if you cannot control your own responses. He can be rude – but don’t let it drag you down to his level. Respect yourself and learn to respond with self respect, dignity and authority.
Hi, Kim, if I could put my arms around you to say how much I think of you and Thank you for your help and guidance over the last couple of years I would. I have weathered the storm and come out the other end, true it got a lot worse before it got better but I stayed very strong for me and would not be budged off course by anything my husband threw at me. He has found respect again for me although I still have to accomplish feeling needed and wanted on a daily basis yet without it yoyoing. He still reverts slightly back to the “I CAN LIVE WITH OR WITHOUT YOU” at times normally when I inadvertently say something that he feels is reminding him of how he once was. Thus my question…..how do I handle passing a woman he was seeing behind my back on the road when I am with him in the car? I am stumbling a bit here as today I made a light hearted remark while still smiling about maybe we should give her a wave and he made out he didnt know who she was or what I was talking about and reverted to his old “I SHOULDN’T BE REMINDED OF HOW BAD I WAS AND NOW IM NOT GONNA SPEAK FOR THE REST OF THE DAY ” attitude. It never fails to knock me but having learned so much from your literature I have quickly turned the situation around by not “for long anyway LOL” taking the hurt on board kjand being made to feel like I’ve done something wrong. Should I completely make out she doesn’t or never did exist as I feel this is what he is trying to do for himself so as he can move forwards, I am quite confident that he is not doing anything to jeopardise our marriage now as he has come so far and daily is so, so normal lol I cringe a little when I say this because I know he will only ever be as normal as your advice and my learning to be different in our relationship will allow him to be, I’m always aware that he will revert back at times but am happy that I am seeing less and less of his old behavior nowadays, I would say this is the last hurdle I need to overcome . I act happy even when I’m not, I move forward much much more quickly now after any unsettling confrontation between us, having said that he has never ever apologised or acknowledged how much he hurt me with his actions or his words in the past all he has ever said was that he wanted to be positive and move forward which he has accomplished but mainly because I have the ability ( especially after your encouragement ) to switch off the bad and move on . I do look forward to the day he takes my hand while out walking instead of me being the affectionate one . He occasionally will initiate sex but not often and it took a long time for him to start saying he liked what I was wearing if we went out somewhere, fair dinkum it was like living with the walking dead , he was void of any emotion towards me . I had all but lost him at its worst but he now shows a lot of respect our business is going really well and he involves me in it with him I retired my business to completely work on us and join him in his business and now after about 8 months of retirement and things improving so much between us I am reading and being a grandmother again and enjoying it and setting up my own little on line business , just having fun not having to concentrate on the relationship so hard, life has returned to normal 90% of the time, not far to go now. Sorry about the length of this but I am so appreciative of what you and your husband have done for me and needed to voice it. May both your lives be forever wonderful, Luv Jillian xxxx
Hi Jillian, I think that sometime when you are calm and feeling very secure in yourself you need to think about what you will say about this and the next time you see this women. Only you know your situation but it may be something like … “I don’t want to remind you of how bad you were – I just wish you were big enough to just once say you were sorry and that you feel bad about what happened.” Then you just leave it at that and don’t expect an answer in return. You get on with your day and stay positive. I also worry a little when you say that you act happy when you are not. It is better if you can maybe be a little more honest and say how you feel – but then go and self soothe and deal with those negative emotions yourself. So you might say something like “I feel angry that you think it is okay to punish me by not talking to me – I am going to go for a walk/run/swim etc. and help myself feel better. Then really do go and do what you need to feel better. The secret there is often to simply reframe the situation or simply focus on something else that is beautiful or that you love. Hopefully as trust grows with your husband a time will come where he can be more honest about his feelings about what happened and you might get a chance to heal this between you. You cannot force that however and especially not from being emotional. You are doing great Jillian and I am glad that your life is becoming more settled and peaceful.
Hi Kim and Steve
Anyone reading this, tackling narcissism and codependency are huge changes. BOTH parties have to face their own flaws and make changes for themselves. Its very hard, Kim and Steves advice is so valuable and works. You still have to find what works in your own situation. Some days I see progress then today my partner is throwing negative comments in about how we might never work, I got upset and felt like giving up. If i could ask Kim 1 question it would be ‘How do I deal with these negative comments, also ones regarding to our son waking up at 6am, my partner moans EVERY day. He’s watched your love videos, 1,2 and 3, we have those ingredients, i find myself on the extreme positive side, yet he still says yea, but ‘what if they are wrong (Kim and Steve), what if we are not able to love each other?’ I have 10 steps to overcoming codependency ebook, dysfunctional relationships and the Love Safety Net workbook which I haven’t done much with yet. Hold on to your Kids Book is also a must for any couple with or without children explains attachment in depth and explains the devestating state of our society and culture today. thanks Kim and Steve xxx
Hi Stef – Don’t let your partners comments get you down. You might say “well hey do you have a better idea?” Then if he just wants to complain and be negative say nicely that you don’t see the conversation going anywhere positive and that you are going to go do some gardening (or something else you enjoy). I think you will really enjoy the Love Safety Net Work Book – especially if your partner is prepared to do it with you!
Hi Kim thought I’d just touch base with you and Steve. It’s been over a year now and am very happy. It definitely has not been an easy road and I keep practicing my new skills learning to change the way I think as a co-dependant as well as being strong but loving with my narcissist I must say though it is getting easier. I never ever thought this person would ever respect me or listen to my views or advice. Becoming a strong woman making tough decisions and sticking to my guns did pay off and I’m still kicking myself for the change in my relationship.
This strength also means giving up on what people might think about me in the smaller community as I think feelings of shame and humiliation from the past can affect a relationship’s ability to move forward. Working on my self esteem, which I found was virtually non existant, with your help was the best thing. I know many people out there would not understand and never will as it’s the age old saying unless you have been there you wouldn’t know but the important thing is the people that matter like family and good friends who even though they may not understand fully they respect your strength.
This is not to say my partner hasnt fallen from grace a couple of times and I have often thought I can’t do this but I handled each moment a little better than the last. Those support networks are still there I have rang them once or twice which has not been an easy task but it has worked with good effect.
He tells me more now when he doesn’t feel right or comfortable about something before the drama can arise and when family say something I don’t pretend anymore out of embarrassment but just state what I need or I just apologise and say this is the way it has to be. When I’m not strong he reminds me to be in a caring way like Ive forgotten and he’s just giving me a little gentle push saying I can do it.
You helped me get rid of the shame and blame my husband and I felt for so long which was the biggest turning point in our lives.
Thanks for your advice
Take care, and have a Happy Easter
Claire
I read this blog and I cannot help but wonder if all this work is worthwhile. I am the daughter of a Narcissist Couple, I logically had to study psychology, practice and go through any amount of therapy hours and methods. I understand that Love and relationships require work, and understanding. I consider myself lucky to be married 23 years with a non narcissist(but child of one)… I think of my kids, I wouldn’t want them to endure the pain I went through, or their kids. I still struggle sometimes when my mom is very stressed and she becomes this person.Is it worth it in the name of love? How can we eradicate this from society?
Hi Tat – Yes it is not an easy journey – but what are the alternatives? Leaving your kids unsupervised with your ex partner (and heaven knows who) after a bitter and nasty separation? Discovering after your third or fourth bad marriage that your own codependence plays into the whole game after you have recreated the same dynamic once again? I think the only possible answer lies in us all – one by one – learning to better regulate our emotions and really it should be being taught in schools. Hard as this work is in the long run the work I have done bettering myself to be able to handle my marriage better is the most productive time I have ever spent.
Thank you for your answers, you made very good points, and I agree. it should be taught in schools. Sometimes I just wished that my Dad (the less pathological one) would have taken us away..I know today that it would not have helped and would have had different consequences. I really meant before kids come and while one can work through co dependence? … My last question is… can your program help me deal with my mom, since is more towards couples? I love her and even when I always dealt with her and worked through my issues. it is getting tiring as she ages I want to see less and less of her, and that I find so sad.
Hi Tat, Yes certainly! Since you have studied a lot of psychology I would suggest you start with 10 Steps to Overcome Codependence and then if you like that and it resonates with you The Love Safety Net Workbook.
Your resources and books have been invaluable to me. I have gotten a lot better and healthier, but he has gotten worse. Really digging in his heals to be dominating, hurtful, and rude. I was trying to do the suggestions on attaching, but lately it is so hard because there is no warmth. I can’t figure out how to be warm toward him. I am not rude or disrespectful, but I can’t find anything to attach to. He constantly devalues me, my job, and what I do for the family. I know he needs to do this to justify in his mind his treatment of me. I am tired of it. He is wearing me down, even though I know what he says about me are lies and that he is the one with the problem. I am just tired of him and of this treatment to me and the children. His inability to see us as valuable or worth considering is frustrating to live with. I am sorry to rant so much. I am just feeling trapped and tired. So many of the things you share have helped, I guess I am looking for help.
Hi Staci, Have you had any luck discovering his double life? And how is your repertoire of comebacks to deal with his insults and put downs? Attachment is one thing – but if for instance he is hiding credit cards you don’t know about or is involved with or keeping other things secret from you – it is time you find out what is behind his aggression. Don’t obsess – just find out – and then once you have the information wait until you have a plan in place before you take action.
He does have a double life, but it is not a secret. To him it is full of things to help other people and our future. For 2 or 3 years now he has been working on starting a non-profit. A lot of it would be good if it wasn’t him using it to not commit to his family or feed his ego. It hasn’t done any measurable things to help our future yet, or any one else’s, and we don’t feel taken care of in the present. He is very divisive. He is trying to live like he is single. His responsibilities he views as sacrifices. I think he is treating me so poorly so that he can then use my keeping my distance as an excuse for his divisive actions. He emotionally manipulates. Such as he told the girls today he would take them to circus tomorrow. Later they realized he was planning on taking them an hour or more late. When they asked him to bring them for the opening or maybe go the next day he lectured them on how they should be grateful for what he can do and not keep looking at what he doesn’t do. It is like he is annoying them and then gets annoyed when they are annoyed. Or uses that annoyance as an excuse to lecture.
More positive, I surprise myself with how clearly I can see his behavior now and how easily I can give comebacks. For a while it felt like I was never going to get the hang of the comebacks and it was so hard to figure them out. Now a lot of times it comes naturally. His behavior doesn’t confuse me like it used to. I can see what he is doing and how he is doing it. I can’t always see how to stop it, but I have had to accept I can’t stop him, but I can keep working to move on with my day and help my kids move on. Some of my efforts have lessened some behaviors. I have gotten a lot more vocabulary and tactics to help my girls.
I think aggression is the right word you used for him. I don’t know why he is aggressive; but I know it doesn’t really have to do with me.
I get upset at myself for still getting hurt by him. I am hundreds times stronger and tougher then I used to be, but he tries to find the thing that will hurt. Because I have gotten stronger he has had to get meaner and use the kids more. I might also need to accept that emotion of hurt. There might be something wrong with me if it didn’t hurt. Sometimes I think my hurt is false hope, wanting him to be different then he is. Sometimes it is because I know this is not how things are supposed to be. It is wrong of him to use things I care about, or to twist things I have done positive in the past, or to exaggerate and remind me of my mistakes in the past to hurt me.
Thank you Kim.
Hi Staci and sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. Personally I think you might need to look at little closer. Check out his credit card statement and computer history and if you can ask people he knows a few discrete questions. My bet is there are things going on under the surface that you don’t know about. Bringing these matters out into the open may be tough – but work through the process we offer and see if you can’t get in touch with the fear he is hiding underneath all of that aggression.
Hi, Tat,
You asked Kim if the principles in her books can be used with narcissistic parents even though the primary focus of her work is couple-oriented. The answer is yes, and that is why I sought this site out in the beginning.
My mom was a raging narcissist and my dad a codependent (although not a raging one – he was very good at stonewalling and disappearing when things became bad).
I separated myself from her by about 1200 miles as soon as I became of age, and my sister severed all contact with her almost two decades ago and that remained in place until my mom’s death.
I was uneasy with this, though. Thankfully, my marriage wasn’t affected, but many of my bosses turned out to be like my mom, and I realized that I had weaknesses in my self: fears, tremendous anxiety, lack of confidence (even though I am highly skilled).
Plus, I carried around an anger, bitterness and deep well of pain of which I was deeply convicted and that was starting to affect my health. I needed to deal with it, but I knew that just “forgive and forget” wasn’t going to cut it. I had tried, but there was just too much going on in my own psyche for that to work. I needed a new method and a game plan. Kim’s worked.
It’s not the relationship per se; the principles are the key and can be applied with spouses, children, parents, bosses, coworkers, friends, neighbors – even bureaucrats! This is true because the key is in you and what you do and say.
Even a rabbit can rule the roost! (I hope this video can be seen in other countries. If not, go to your version of youtube and look up “Champis – den vallande kaninen.”)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qeuL5IGimCQ
The true worth in this is in refining and strengthening your own character and coming to grips with the truth and taking responsibility for your part in it. You can’t control others, but you can be a strong influence and mark a path for others to follow who are lost in their own dysfunction.
Kim wrote: “In love with the idea of being loved and adored, the narcissist will let nothing stand in the way of finding their next adoring fan.”
When I was young(er), I spent a good bit of hard-earned cash trying to get help from professional counselors. Inevitably, after trying to describe what it was like to live with my mom, and them asking about her life and what she did, they would start looking at me with disdain. They might compromise a bit by saying she was critical, but they didn’t recognize the pattern of narcissism. They thought I was a spoiled brat. Yes, I was angry to the point of bitterness, but there was a reason for that – they didn’t understand the mechanism.
My mom was a minister. She set up food banks, helped people find jobs, receive medical care, and get job training. She lobbied Congress on behalf of Russian immigrants. If she saw someone crying on the street, she would stop and go ask why and use her resources to help if that person allowed it. She did wonderful things for many people. BUT, she used her home as an emotional dumping ground and she was motivated to do the things she did out of need to “be somebody.” She craved recognition.
I was shocked when I saw this same pattern in a very famous person this summer. A historical person about home plays and movies have been made.
I toured the Molly Brown House in Denver, Colorado. The Unsinkable Molly Brown who survived the Titanic adventure became wealthy as a result of her husband’s mining shares, but her marriage didn’t survive. She never divorced because she was Catholic, but they lived separately for most of their married life. At one point her husband was interviewed and asked why he thought his wife survived the sinking of the Titanic, and he answered, “She’s too mean to die.”
Her children ended up being estranged from her, and the society of Denver never accepted her. However, after the disaster she raised money for and kept in touch with all the survivors of the trip. She was deeply loved by strangers.
Deeply loved by strangers, but deserted by her own family. It’s a terrible place to be. And highly reminiscent of my mother’s life (although my dad, God bless him, never left her and was by her side until she died.)
No wonder Paul tells Timothy in the New Testament that people who want to be elders in the church must have stable families. The true crucible of character is in the family.
I have a question about “Throwing the Sheep out With the Wolf”…
In the book you said Steve would talk about the future and you would tell him “I don’t want to hear about it. I am glad you want to take care of us, but right now I have to work/sleep” My question is, does this pertain only to talk about the future? The reason I ask is that I work from home (as a telephone representative) and my husband will come and stand beside me when I am on the phone and talk and talk and talk and talk (about himself) with no regard for me and my work. Is it appropriate to say the same thing to him, or is it just for false promises about the future?
I would really appreciate clarification on this
Hi Caroline – It is slightly different but him interfering with your work – or talking only about himself – are both boundaries that you should set limits on. You might say something like “I am glad that you want to spend time with me – but I really have to work now and so let’s talk later okay?” Then if he doesn’t go away you may need to say “I love you – but if you can’t give me some space to work I may have to get some headphones and a headset to give you the message!”
Politely ending non productive conversations of all types is something that you will probably find very helpful.
I have read all what I can get my hands on. I am going through divorce of 23 yrs of marriage, up until 8 yrs ago, I was arrested for throwing my spouse cell phone and hit him on the head, I found tex messages on his phone from a female co worker. I went to jail, and my own children and sister had to bail me out of jail. My spouse response was she will be out on Monday, and he had a huge job responsibility and didn’t know what to do.
I was ordered by the court to pay fines and take anger management and domestic violence classes.
This was and how everything started to unfold before before my eyes.
Last summer August 2012, after leaving my spouse apartment, he traveled lot’s in his job and was always comfortable with distance in our marriage. I had a spouse who did not like to do anything for me and only time we truly spent was out to eat! But once I was out of the picture he was this person who had fun and did things that would not even touch on what we had experienced in our marriage of 23 yrs. I had enough of feeling inferior to him and my self esteem well there was none, everything was my fault and he divided my children and our children, my grandchildren felt his anger and distance. What I couldn’t see, others family close friends always told me that this man must have two lives, he did nothing for me never celebrated our anniversary or my birthday’s, everything that went wrong was always my fault! Christmas was a worry and he made it well known that he supported all of us and we were unappreciative of him, I felt ugly, and not worthy of him or what he had done for me and my children, I had three and we had together 2 girls. I have 8 grandchildren. I always tried to be there for him and neglected myself always, until last year the summer of 2012 when I finally had enough of going without and struggling for shelter and food! my spouse of 23 yrs. learned that my friend had feelings for me and I told my spouse and I said why is it that everyone has respect and love for me but you!!! that is not an understatement! My spouse shut down walked away and two months later there was a younger women and she was introduced to our daughters and he took her to varios expensive places and to his family home for thanksgiving only three months, after I told him I had enough. My daughters 22&20 came home after spending the weekend with there father and this other women and told me, how much there dad was a totally different person and of course it pained them and they came home with such confusion, but in the end it all made sense to me and looking back all the times that I caught him on chat lines pornography and after going to jail for finding that he was having affair but always denied it. I was down on my knees and asked for help. I am blessed to have sister’s who are honest with me and love me. My spouse made good money and I stood home raised 5 children then helped with my grandchildren. I today am fighting in divorce court and learned he filed for divorce with no asset and when I went to get help, I learned he had filed for divorce and was planning all along for two years. Leaning of this disorder has my mouth dropped, everything that has uncertain in my life is starting to make sense now. Please help me to know that I am now facing a man who is fighting court and thinks that I do not deserve any alimony or anything…..he took my car and stopped deposit in our joint account and looked at me with disgusted and has always put me down in front of my children and grandchildren, always the butt of his joke, and pretended to be someone loving and caring but in private very disconnected to all of us in the home. He had no problem being cruel with words to me and all the women in our home. My two older daughters have no desire to be in his life, i can go on and on but I will end is this after one year now, and I have no desire to look back but I have realized that taking on the fault has been false and I want to be able to find who I am. I never understood me but now I believe that I am the codependent. Help!
Sincerely,
Lou
Hi Lou – I am glad that you found us! You have a long hard road ahead of you now – but you need to fight to win. He expects to be able to take advantage of your trusting and fair nature – so you need to surprise him by looking out for yourself now at all costs. You make sure you track down his assets and that the court knows his true income. 10 Steps to overcome codependence will help you – but our books are mainly about repairing your relationship and I think you are well past that. What you need to do now is to really focus on presenting yourself in a way that you get the help you need from the courts and the people around you. It is easy to think that crying and showing people how badly he has hurt you will make them sympathetic but it wont. Instead you need to be focused and calm and present yourself as the honest and responsible person that you are. Don’t let the lies he has told about you stick. Don’t get drawn into to arguments or disagreements that don’t matter. You played your role in this marriage and you have an equal share in what assets he has. Play hard and play to win and don’t show him your hand!
Wow – this really explains my father, a retired small-town doctor, who did anything he could for his patients, but dumped on his family, with constant physical and verbal abuse. His fragile ego was fed by being such a “great doctor”, but he ruined the lives of his children. We all have emotional scars. My weak mother didn’t put the needs of her children first. She stayed with him even through all the abuse, thinking she could not make it on her own. Over the years I have come to realize that HE was the one with the problem, but when you are a child being told you are worthless and never going to amount to anything, etc., and are beaten on a regular basis, you come to believe it